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Status:
Draft
This is a painting of a map I started for the Eastern League area. It has a couple other places bordering it. The red marks a political boundaries. The dark green areas are places that are densely forrested (like a jungle or the Black Forest). the Light green areas are typical arid / grass lands. The brown striped and white is a desert / arid region. The mountains are ... well, mountains. The blue is water. Take note of the rivers and lake in the mountains. I did consider some typical weather patterns for a planet the size of the earth and with a similar rotation and position within the solar disc.
Let me know what you think of it or how we need to make changes. I like to make paintings before going to CC3 because CAD is actually harder to be creative on (for me). I am working on a number of other regions too and on a Staadtplan (errr citymap) of Brug and surrounding area.
A larger version is here www.aetherealplane.com/byswarm/el1.jpg
Take a look at this J-Peg of the CC3(Campaign Cartographer 3) map of the Eastern League. We need to flesh out the locations and I would appreciate it if those folks that know of the major towns elaborate upon them. As to the smaller places we can address those as more is developed to support them.
Link to the actual map that is Swarm Property: www.aetherealplane.com/byswarm/eastern_league.FCW
Taking the suggestions and adding them to the map I have removed the "errant river" and replaced it with a series of bogs / swamplands, The area represents a previous and long past course for the current river. I also have incorporated the suggestions concerning the mountains and their adjoining the Storm Islands.
The only thing that remains is to have the membership begin to flesh the place out. I sorta got that started with a nudge on the "City of Brug"
Take a look at the preliminary rendering of the entire map of Gondal also.
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Comments
DARN,,, Fix is on the way
I was having trouble with this FCW (CC3) map and sent it of to Ralf at Profantasy Support. He is looking it over to find out what the problem is within the map. He said he would get back to me... Ralf is rather dependable so, we can give him some time.
If you download the actual map and open it with your CC3 then when you render the effects and try to print it will halt the CC3 program and kick you back out the the OS. Otherwise the map does not adversely affect the application. Still, I wanna wait on Ralf to let me know what we need to fix here so that the long term product is the best that it can be.
That's definitely odd. Thanks
That's definitely odd. Thanks for looking into it!
Moving to Final soon
I have addressed (as far as I can tell) all of the issues that people had brought up in regards to the final map. I am therefore taking this thread to the "FINAL" state this Saturday if no one responds to the contrary.
The only other feedback I
The only other feedback I have for a final version is for the subtext under the main labels to be a little bigger, same with the city names. Do you want to put on a scale? If so, I'll trust your estimate based on the early draft map.
Now that you mention it ...
I want to stress that this map should be considered a "work in progress" even after I call it done. The reason being is I hope that others will write about new places and place them on the map by either contacting MikeB or someone that has CC3 so that we can flesh out the world even better.
OK - as to the text I can certainly increase it in size, however one thing to consider is that as we add to the map if the political markings are oversize they will get in the way of the various landmarks and locations on the map itself. I might suggest that the team take a look at some of the maps on other sites - links are on Profantasy.com and Ralf has a number of maps at http://www.mapsandmore.com/ - Ralf is a heck of a guy when it comes to CC3 and mapping.
As I think of it, maybe if we
As I think of it, maybe if we just have text for the main political powers and major cities or other major sites, and then icons for things like towns, points of interest, ruins, historical sites of note, etc. With a basic grid we can just then say "that little ruin in B7 is the ruin of X particular fortress" or "the dot in E5 is a town called Y" and so on.
I also think it might be confusing to have more than one or two colors for place-names on the map (having looked at a few of the maps you linked to). Maybe a black or very dark brown (mimicking old ink) for cities and major sites paired with a dark red for political names and boundaries?...
I really like it
I think this is a definite keeper with one possible exception - I don't understand the rivers. It looks like water can take two different routes to the sea using the same river system, something that isn't possible. I think it can be resolved somehow by doing something with the river section just north of the Eastern League text.
Even Jon said that
At lunch today, my buddy Jon said the same thing that you all did. He suggested that it is possible that the river could have taken the course we are discussing many years ago and the headwaters changed. He suggested that I replace the river with a series of lakes or lowland swamps. I have allot of friends with masters degrees and Phd.s ... Surround yourself with smart people and it won't matter if you are unimpressive....
So yeah - I will dump that river in the updated map.
Interestingly I did find one instance where a river can take two paths to the sea, but the conditions are not correct to allow that to happen here. It would have to fill a lake at a plateau or abruptly elevated grade and then fall from the lake to two distinctly separate elevations that were on opposing plates ... I can only think of one time that I ever saw this model and that was a theoretical supposition put forward in a candidates thesis in college. So ... back to reality
I vote for the lakes and
I vote for the lakes and swamps idea - I think that if our setting map actually has some geologic history, where it fits and makes things more interesting, that's nothing but a plus.
Lakes are in place
Those lakes could make up a major swamp / bog. Always a great place for lizard men (an old favorite of mine - I played a T'Skrang in Earthdawn :D). Plenty of opportunities for scary stories and so forth. The ruins of an old fortified city on what used to be that stretch of river. Abandoned and empty, a great place for the more amphibious of the beastfolk to take up residence.
Um, awesome. Awesome! I agree
Um, awesome. Awesome!
I agree about the one river - I think the offending waterway can just be cut, and then there would just be a nice contested border between the Sarkan Tribelands and the Eastern League.
Responding..,
First I have to say thank you for the positive support in this post. Now down to business
Rennata said,
I will second the idea of using geographic features to mark out political ones.
Have you done any work on the area of Free Tesaya? I was thinking of trying to clarify where the crypt is on the map, but did not want to take it in a different direction if you were already painting it out.
I am learning the CC3 as I go, so I really do not want to duplicate your efforts.
Response: I have not done any work on the specific areas of the continent except for this area. Please let me know what you do so that I can incorporate whatever you have in properly. I have already discovered that, based on a previous post, I have the cities of Dai Oli and Ras Modin in the wrong place. I need to hear about that sorta thing since it will be far easier to move them around on a finished map than to re-write them. Let me know if I can help on CC3. I have bugged hell outta Ralf getting tips and such - may as well pass that on. One thing - even if you do not consider yourself to be artistic I would suggest drawing out what you plan to create before you actually create it. Once you have what you like on say .... an 8.5 X 11 paper you can scan it and place it in your CC3 as a bitmap and trace everything out. Trust me - that is the way to go.
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MikeB said,
I'm still stunned at how awesome your concept art is for this. The only thing I can think to suggest is to feel free to use some sort of geography to help suggest the political boundaries. I can't tell if there are rivers or something with them, but I think it makes sense to have something.
Another possibility could be looser boundaries. With the Collapse, it could be that borders have become less important as magic is unable to help a nation effectively keep its borders under total control. This may not be the case for every country though, so feel free to use whatever judgment you think is best.
The Eastern League is a group of city-states, and so it makes sense that their borders are somewhat vague. Ustern seems mostly interested in defending its western border against Thuria, so the eastern border should probably be a natural one. The northern one could be vaguer.
Response: Yes there are rivers there and the boundaries are along those rivers. I would suggest using the link I have that has a much larger version of the map. It may be easier to enlarge and make sense of. As to borders - I too like the notion that those old borders mean nothing. Based upon my understanding of Brug and the map I am working on of that City - State it is all that the remnant that live there can do to fend off the creatures below the city borders not withstanding. In short I only have the borders in there to show what they once were. I feel that the final decision will be best received if it is well concieved and I really like the stuff that already exists explaining how borders are no longer solid in most places. In fact the loose apocalyptic feel makes me think of the old "FALLOUT" computer game. Adventurers in our milieu will feel like they are on the "Frontier of Fantasy". The points made about the borders and how they are managed or addressed at differing points along their reach is a very good one. This thought considers logistics and real world stresses in an over-taxed infrastructure managed by a people that cannot address its needs and threatened by a people that could not accept those needs. Very gritty.
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Robosnake said,
That idea of borderlessness is pretty interesting. It's only been 3 years since the Collapse - I'm sure that with ubiquitous arcane magic, there would have been arcane ways of managing borders, and those would all have gone away very suddenly. I could see borders that didn't coincide with geographical features disappearing completely, leading to all kinds of conflict, raiding, insurgency and so on. Borders that do coincide with geographical features would be a little more stable - so we could have both.
Really, map maestro, do what you will.
&
One thought - it looks like the Storm Islands, geologically-speaking, might be extensions of the long mountain range, and so they might be brought a little more in line with it.
Response:
I fully agree, rivers and obstructions make up the real borders now. Besides the more obvious physical obstructions we can now add the inability to control far flung empires as a new imposition upon the existing political landscape. I hear this to be a theme so I will keep that in mind as I move through the land making mountains out of mole hills. I like that part about the isles being a extension of the mountains - it is so very intelligent and obvious that I wish I had of noticed it. Frankly moving the isles about to accentuate that idea will make the continental relief very, very believable as a working planet. Are you sure that you weren't in my 303 Geography and Earth Sciences class? Man, I am so JAZZED about that point - I should have caught that... wow.
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Thanks for you encouragement, I will continue to labor to meet the level of energy that you all have already placed into this work.
You rock
That's all there is to say for now. :)
I'm glad the point has you
I'm glad the point has you jazzed! I've just spent too much time studying for the purpose of making more believable maps for roleplaying games. :) You map has me jazzed, and I like where we're heading with the cartography.
I will second the idea of
I will second the idea of using geographic features to mark out political ones.
Have you done any work on the area of Free Tesaya? I was thinking of trying to clarify where the crypt is on the map, but did not want to take it in a different direction if you were already painting it out.
I am learning the CC3 as I go, so I really do not want to duplicate your efforts.
Rennata
I'm still stunned at how
I'm still stunned at how awesome your concept art is for this. The only thing I can think to suggest is to feel free to use some sort of geography to help suggest the political boundaries. I can't tell if there are rivers or something with them, but I think it makes sense to have something.
Another possibility could be looser boundaries. With the Collapse, it could be that borders have become less important as magic is unable to help a nation effectively keep its borders under total control. This may not be the case for every country though, so feel free to use whatever judgment you think is best.
That idea of borderlessness
That idea of borderlessness is pretty interesting. It's only been 3 years since the Collapse - I'm sure that wit ubiquitous arcane magic, there would have been arcane ways of managing borders, and those would all have gone away very suddenly. I could see borders that didn't coincide with geographical features disappearing completely, leading to all kinds of conflict, raiding, insurgency and so on. Borders that do coincide with geographical features would be a little more stable - so we could have both.
Really, map maestro, do what you will.
Let's vary it as appropriate
The Eastern League is a group of city-states, and so it makes sense that their borders are somewhat vague. Ustern seems mostly interested in defending its western border against Thuria, so the eastern border should probably be a natural one. The northern one could be vaguer.
I'd say the more expansionist and territorial a country is described, the more likely it is to have firm borders. Natural boundaries are good to keep some nations fenced in that could be interested in significant expansion if left with an unfettered border.
With the Demise of Marakandar
Since Marakandar has fallen completely into the grasp of monsters and the minions of the wicked there is nothing in the north to maintain order and civilization in the Eastern League. There should be plenty of interesting and exciting modules just rearing to come out about that region.
Looks great to me
I think the map looks awesome, makes sense with the little bit I know about the geography of world-building.
One thought - it looks like the Storm Islands, geologically-speaking, might be extensions of the long mountain range, and so they might be brought a little more in line with it.
That is nitpicking, I just feel like I should make some kind of substantial comment. It's an awesome map, though.
It looks like national boundaries follow rivers - is that correct?