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Reincarnate (for beastfolk)

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Status: 
Draft

 

 

Reincarnate

School transmutationLevel druid 4, witch 5

CASTING

Casting Time 10 minutes
Components V, S, M, DF (oils worth 1,000 gp)

EFFECT

Range touch
Target dead creature touched
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw none, see text; Spell Resistance yes (harmless)

 

 

Relationships: 

Comments

I like this - it may need to

I like this - it may need to be adjusted now and then, depending on what beastfolk end up in published setting materials, but I like the idea. It needs a little bit of poking around with ("buzzkill" = "buzzkin", maybe add Corvus because we have at least one NPC of that type in an adventure, etc.)

Bleh, stupid typos :P Yeah,

Bleh, stupid typos :P

Yeah, not all the races listed on the chart are locked down in their final form yet either. Perhaps most notably, I couldn't find a "tauran" page. I linked to the minotaur instead, but I'm guessing that the mintaur isn't the appropriate target.

Mostly, I selected races based on those with similar stat adjustments to the original reincarnate list. Feel free to tweak the list as you see fit :P I just wanted to get this up and off the ground.

Actually, Minotaur is

Actually, Minotaur is probably just right. When there is already a beastfolk-type in the Bestiary, for the most part we've just been using that. Which isn't to say there's any rule against making a new one, just not re-inventing the proverbial wheel when we can avoid it, you know?

It's just that the minotaur

It's just that the minotaur is a race that's much more powerful than the other options presented in the spell.

Darkvision 60
Large size with 10ft reach
6 racial hit dice, with the feats, skills, and bab that come with it
Hefty stat modifiers
immunity to flat-foot condition
powerful charge

Racial HD

Those racial HD will eat up class levels though. Just because you get reincarnated doesn't mean you get 6 free levels.

True, but in pathfinder

True, but in pathfinder that's not how it works.

6 hit dice don't mean six levels. The package must be considered as a whole.

For example, the gnoll has two racial hit dice, but is only considered worth a single class level. And reincarnate doesn't cause you to lose levels based on the creature you reincarnate as.

If a two-handed fighter died and was reincarnated as a minotaur, he would stay the same level, but gain a number of bonuses that would make him significantly better than the other fighter who didn't die. While at that point he would take longer to gain his next level, he would still overpower the rest of the party for quite a while. I think the only thing to do in this situation is to come up with an actual Tauran build, instead of using the minotaur. I'll probably make him on par with the gnoll, equal to a single class level.

No Racial HD

I do not see anywhere in the spell where it says you get the racial HD and the associated feats that come with it. Nor does it impact how fast one levels. Your experience stays the same - only your pure, physical form is changed. Gnolls do not get the 2 racial HD when reincarnated.

Racial HD are not considered 'abilities.'

The reincarnated creature gains all abilities associated with its new form, including forms of movement and speeds, natural armor, natural attacks, extraordinary abilities, and the like, but it doesn't automatically speak the language of the new form.

And yeah, a fighter who came back as a minotaur would be better off - but there is a chance he comes back as a kobold too...

Remember, we're not just

Remember, we're not just talking about the reincarnate spell. We're also talking about a playable race for the campaign setting since tossing a race on the reincarnate list makes it much more likely that we'll see the race in play.

As a playable class, six hd don't equal 6 levels. We'd need to determine what the bonuses were worth and what level a minotaur character would need to start out at.

As the reincarnate spell, the player gets str, dex, con modifiers, "all abilities associated with its new form, including forms of movement and speeds, natural armor, natural attacks, extraordinary abilities, and the like, but it doesn't automatically speak the language of the new form.

In the case of the minotaur, the player would get:
darkvision 60
+5 natural armor bonus
Large size *with 10ft reach*
Natural cunning (Ex): immunity to maze spells, and never flat-footed.
Special attack: Powerful charge (gore 2d6)
+8 to strength, +4 to con
and possibly racial modifiers +4 perception and +4 survival.

In the case of the current iteration of the Tauran, the player would get:
+4 strength, +2 con
low-light vision
gore attack (1d6)
the charge! ability (bonus on charge attacks)
stubborn (bonus to will vs mind affecting, and +2dc to be influenced via intimidate or diplomacy)
and sturdy (as per the dwarf ability)

You can see the minotaur is a much more favorable bonus than the tauran. The tauran is a 25 point race at the moment, and is pretty on par with the orc, which is what it replaced. The orc is the best race for a melee combatant on the original list. Going too far from those bonuses seems to me like unbalancing the spell. Especially when the stat bonuses end up being double the original value :D

I think I misunderstood the Tauren vs. Minotaur part...

All I saw on the list was the Tauren stats, which while boff, didn't seem game-breaking to me.

I wouldn't even hate it if they got a +1 Nat Armour AC bonus.

Should they get the stubborn part of it? I can see the Sturdy being a physical aspect, but since they don't have the mental deficiencies, I don't see the stubborn carrying over.

Would the Tauren be Medium size or Large?

I think most creatures in the game (except humans) have low-light vision, so that seems a wash to me. The gore attack is nice as it opens up a lot of options. The charge! trait is kind of meh to me - it isn't so big as to be a game changer.

Well, we used a point value

Well, we used a point value system created over on the paizo boards to calculate new races. You can find the page here:
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfind...

Taurans would be Medium size. Reach is a *cough* large benefit.

The Tauran entry had some existing stats and abilities in the table, before there even was a page for it. So for the most part, I just plugged those abilities in.

Right now, the tauran is a 25 point race. Races from the CRB are 10 points. Adding 1 natural armor is 4 points, pushing them up to a 29 point race. Honestly, the race should be fewer points to be a single level adjustment. You can get those by adding in weaknesses as well. I'd say that large size would have to be a 10 point adjustment.

I tried to use the minotaur as a template as much as possible, keeping the abilities where I could. Like the gore. In some cases, I reduced the benefits or values to reduce the price of the race, like turning darkvision into low light vision.

You're more than welcome to offer suggestions about abilities that provide penalties so that we can get that natural armor bonus in :)

Oh, and the after-modification stat bonuses for the taurans are +4 Strength, +2 Con, -2 Intelligence, -2 Charisma, so they do have a penalty to a mental score. You don't see that on the reincarnate chart, since reincarnate ignores the mental stats.

If you're looking for a

If you're looking for a disadvantage to add in there, for many of the combat-oriented/scary beastfolk, we've added in some kind of vulnerability to mind-affecting spells and effects, reasoning that the wizards who created combat-monsters would create them to be extra malleable. I definitely agree that a character that is over 20 points should probably be more than +1 level, and that getting closer to 20 would be a good idea.

mikeb's picture

The new race book from Paizo

The new race book from Paizo will go into playtest at the end of this calendar year. It is supposed to include rules for creating races, so we should be able to tweak things based on that as needed.

I hope the new book is very

I hope the new book is very similar to the system on the forums, or else we will have some reworking to do.  That may be inevitable, but will include going back through a ton of pages.

Yeah, it will definitely be

Yeah, it will definitely be handy around here!